Kagi For-Fee Search: Comments from a Thread about Search
January 2, 2024
This essay is the work of a dumb dinobaby. No smart software required.
Comparisons of search engine performance are quite difficult to design, run, and analyze. In the good old days when commercial databases reigned supreme, special librarians could select queries, refine them, and then run those queries via Dialog, LexisNexis, DataStar, or another commercial search engine. Examination of the results were tabulated and hard copy print outs on thermal paper were examined. The process required knowledge of the search syntax, expertise in query shaping, and the knowledge in the minds of the special librarians performing the analysis. Others were involved, but the work focused on determining overlap among databases, analysis of relevance (human and mathematical), and expertise gained from work in the commercial database sector, academic training, and work in a special library.
Who does that now? Answer: No one. With this prefatory statement, let’s turn our attention to “How Bad Are Search Results? Let’s Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT.” Please, read the write up. The guts of the analysis, in my opinion, appear in this table:
The point is that search sucks. Let’s move on. The most interesting outcome from this write up from my vantage point is the comments in the Hacker News post. What I want to do is highlight observations about Kagi.com, a pay-to-use Web search service. The items I have selected make clear why starting and building sustainable revenue from Web search is difficult. Furthermore, the comments I have selected make clear that without an editorial policy, specific information about the corpus, its updating, and content acquisition method — evaluation is difficult.
Long gone are the days of precision and recall, and I am not sure most of today’s users know or care. I still do, but I am a dinobaby and one of those people who created an early search-related service called The Point (Top 5% of the Internet), the Auto Channel, and a number of other long-forgotten Web sites that delivered some type of findability. Why am I roadkill on the information highway? No one knows or cares about the complexity of finding information in print or online. Sure, some graduate students do, but are you aware that the modern academic just makes up or steals other information; for instance, the former president of Stanford University.l
Okay, here are some comments about Kagi.com from Hacker News. (Please, don’t write me and complain that I am unfair. I am just doing what dinobabies with graduate degrees do — Provide footnotes)
hannasanario: I’m not able to reproduce the author’s bad results in Kagi, at all. What I’m seeing when searching the same terms is fantastic in comparison. I don’t know what went wrong there. Dinobaby comment: Search results, in the absence of editorial policies and other basic information about valid syntax means subjectivity is the guiding light. Remember that soap operas were once sponsored influencer content.
Semaphor: This whole thread made me finally create a file for documenting bad searches on Kagi. The issue for me is usually that they drop very important search terms from the query and give me unrelated results. Dinobaby comment: Yep, editorial functions in results, and these are often surprises. But when people know zero about a topic, who cares? Not most users.
Szundi: Kagi is awesome for me too. I just realize using Google somewhere else because of the sh&t results. Dinobaby comment: Ah, the Google good enough approach is evident in this comment. But it is subjective, merely an opinion. Just ask a stockholder. Google delivers, kiddo.
Mrweasel: Currently Kagi is just as dependent on Google as DuckDuckGo is on Bing. Dinobaby comment: Perhaps Kagi is not communicating where content originates, how results are generated, and why information strikes Mrweasel as “dependent on Google. Neeva was an outfit that wanted to go beyond Google and ended up, after marketing hoo hah selling itself to some entity.
Fenaro: Kagi should hire the Marginalia author. Dinobaby comment: Staffing suggestions are interesting but disconnected from reality in my opinion.
ed109685: Kagi works because there is no incentive for SEO manipulators to target it since their market share is so small. Dinobaby comment: Ouch, small.
shado: I became a huge fan of Kagi after seeing it on hacker news too. It’s amazing how good a search engine can be when it’s not full of ads. Dinobaby comment: A happy customer but no hard data or examples. Subjectivity in full blossom.
yashasolutions: Kagi is great… So I switch recently to Kagi, and so far it’s been smooth sailing and a real time saver. Dinobaby comment: Score another happy, paying customer for Kagi.
innocentoldguy: I like Kagi and rarely use anything else. Kagi’s results are decent and I can blacklist sites like Amazon.com so they never show up in my search results. Dionobaby comment: Another dinobaby who is an expert about search.
What does this selection of Kagi-related comments reveal about Web search? Here’s snapshot of my notes:
- Kagi is not marketing its features and benefits particularly well, but what search engine is? With Google sucking in more than 90 percent of the query action, big bucks are required to get the message out. This means that subscriptions may be tough to sell because marketing is expensive and people sign up, then cancel.
- There is quite a bit of misunderstanding among “expert” searchers like the denizens of Hacker News. The nuances of a Web search, money supported content, metasearch, result matching, etc. make search a great big cloud of unknowing for most users.
- The absence of reproducible results illustrates what happens when consumerization of search and retrieval becomes the benchmark. The pursuit of good enough results in loss of finding functionality and expertise.
Net net: Search sucks. Oh, wait, I used that phrase in an article for Barbara Quint 35 years ago.
PS. Mwmbl is at https://mwmbl.or in case you are not familiar with the open source, non profit search engine. You have to register, well, because…
Stephen E Arnold, January 2, 2024
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